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Post by bfgrad on Aug 5, 2020 9:32:09 GMT -5
Unless you want to never go indoors again, then the federal/state/local gov'ts better start helping these venues upgrade their HVAC systems. I was reading BF's athletic safety plan and one of the elements, to my surprise, was ventilation.
I continue to believe masks don't make a difference one way or the other. Distancing is probably the best thing, but the vast majority of people do that naturally anyway. People don't have to go to bars to drink or socialize. Most of us live in houses or apartments and can gather there.
Pennsylvania has no problem with Shell busing workers to/from its construction site and continuing to ramp up its workforce with an attendant increase in cases, but bars are the places being closed.
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Post by yig on Aug 5, 2020 12:41:07 GMT -5
I don't think that anyone is implying that. Aside from your statement being hyperbole it is somewhat likely that we have a vaccine by sometime in 2021. With that said there are high risk people out there who will not go anywhere indoors aside from their own home and their doctor's office/hospital room until that vaccine is out. I am not one of those people (I work every day, still grocery shop if I have time when the nanny is watching the kids or if my wife and I are both off) but I'm not going to put myself at unnecessary risk, either (attending a birthday party at a bar for instance). To add on to that ventilation doesn't seem to be a problem in big box stores, warehouses, factories, etc. More so nursing homes/personal care facilities, hospitals, cinemas, schools, offices, churches, etc. Restaurants probably depending on capacity vs size...almost all bar/restaurant related outbreaks have to do with not social distancing rather than lack of cleanliness or mass spread ventilation issues.
I am not discounting HVAC/ventilation improvements being on the list of necessary improvements/lessons along with automatic unemployment triggers and more robust unemployment compensation for situations such as what the bar workers are facing, rebuilding the national stockpile for PPE/drugs/vaccines, making the supply chain less dependent on China, more affordable health care (including preventable care and medications), a better online education infrastructure for kids of grade school age, ease and access to mail-in voting, and I'm sure some other things that I am not thinking of at the moment. It would definitely be somewhere in that lineup...probably not on the top, but somewhere. I just hope that lessons are learned and changes are made in an effort to prevent anything like this ever happening again.
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Post by baldwintrack on Aug 6, 2020 5:47:01 GMT -5
I have read masks can be generally 50% to 75% more effective than nothing. That’s an answer nobody really wants to hear so maybe that is why they’re controversial.
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Post by yig on Aug 6, 2020 7:52:44 GMT -5
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Post by bfgrad on Aug 6, 2020 8:23:19 GMT -5
Here's a CDC chart explaining the various masks.
Note that this starts with surgical masks that used in hospitals, not homemade or the surgical mask knock-offs sold in stores.
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Post by hs on Aug 6, 2020 8:36:20 GMT -5
Watching the news on the CW this morning and they reported that the Restaurant association sent a letter signed by 35 state reps giving Gov Wolf an “ultimatum” to let restaurants open back up again. They feel they are being harassed unfairly due to a few businesses that didn’t follow the rules to start. Now what the ultimatum is or what they plan to do if the governor ignores this was not reported. An owner in Bethel Park (I think it was Atrias) says he wants to open to 100% capacity which we know won’t be allowed. So I don’t know what they are asking for from the governor. Kind of vague reporting by KDKA.
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Post by bfgrad on Aug 6, 2020 11:49:12 GMT -5
hs, this was on the KDKA noon news. The petitioners led by Al's something in Bethel Park, say they just want a seat at the table and for Wolf to listen to what the capacity reduction is doing to them. It's something Wolf should do, no question about it. I doubt he knows what these businesses are really facing and could learn useful information to inform his decisions.
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Post by hs on Aug 6, 2020 13:23:19 GMT -5
hs, this was on the KDKA noon news. The petitioners led by Al's something in Bethel Park, say they just want a seat at the table and for Wolf to listen to what the capacity reduction is doing to them. It's something Wolf should do, no question about it. I doubt he knows what these businesses are really facing and could learn useful information to inform his decisions. Okay, that’s a little different than what they were saying on the CW this morning. They were saying this morning on giving Wolf an ultimatum. But on what they didn’t say. I would have to think most mayors and governors across the country really don’t know or care what their decisions do to businesses and people because their decisions never affect their lives or paychecks
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Post by bfgrad on Aug 6, 2020 16:27:25 GMT -5
hs, I think it's a tough balancing act, but from the beginning Wolf has been very conservative with the way he's handled the epidemic in the state. If there's an error to be made, it's on the side of caution.
I think, as governor, Wolf owes it to the bar/restaurant owners to hear them out. If I were governor, I'd want to hear what they have to say.
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Post by emm8 on Aug 7, 2020 0:26:46 GMT -5
hs, this was on the KDKA noon news. The petitioners led by Al's something in Bethel Park, say they just want a seat at the table and for Wolf to listen to what the capacity reduction is doing to them. It's something Wolf should do, no question about it. I doubt he knows what these businesses are really facing and could learn useful information to inform his decisions. Okay, that’s a little different than what they were saying on the CW this morning. They were saying this morning on giving Wolf an ultimatum. But on what they didn’t say. I would have to think most mayors and governors across the country really don’t know or care what their decisions do to businesses and people because their decisions never affect their lives or paychecks The ultimatum was "either sit down and hear them out, or they'd just all agree to disregard the occupancy requirements and open up at 100% occupancy, but trying to follow the other requirements". They're now calming down for now and giving Gov. Wolf until the 14th to hear them out. Mostly bluster to get a meeting. Pretty similar to congressional type (McConnell v Pelosi to and fro) negotiations bluster. Even given a meeting, my guess would be that Wolf would make no concession whatsoever on the issue (barring a real improvement in the data between now and then). As to most mayors and governors being ignorant of the facts as to the cost and ramifications of the stringent limitations placed on these businesses, and the similar effects they'd have on state/city coffers, or not caring about the effects/ramifications..."SAY WHAT?" There's only one politician in the land that would fit that description, and he's at a much higher pay grade!
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Post by baldwintrack on Aug 7, 2020 16:00:24 GMT -5
Anecdotally I think Trump is picking up some steam again locally. More and more people were fine with being careful over the virus and were with the democratic plan for a few months but have seen things aren’t as scary as was projected and are over it. I don’t think the fear monger it can last three more months.
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Post by stones on Aug 7, 2020 16:02:41 GMT -5
hs Unemployment Rate down to 10% Not great but pretty damn good when u factor all things in
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Post by hs on Aug 7, 2020 19:27:21 GMT -5
hs Unemployment Rate down to 10% Not great but pretty damn good when u factor all things in I’d like to see it get down to 7 or 8% before the election but I’m sure the Democrats will do everything they can to keep that from happening
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Post by yig on Aug 8, 2020 9:35:05 GMT -5
Probably Al's Cafe on McMurray Road!
If and when any of you are going to Peters Township, Upper St. Clair, or Bethel Park I would recommend them! Kind of a South Hills staple. Just regular American cuisine. I would say for the non chain crowd along with Dorido's and Pasta Too one of the restaurants with more character in that area that those of us in the South Hills kind of grew up with.
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Post by bfgrad on Aug 8, 2020 10:21:36 GMT -5
That's the place, yig.
hs, no one should be surprised unemployment numbers went down since businesses were involuntarily closed and people were laid off. Once businesses re-opened, people were going to go back to work. Still people in the hospitality industry (hotels, travel), entertainment (Broadway, movie houses, theaters) industry and bar/restaurant industry are still out of work.
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