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Post by baldwintrack on Aug 17, 2021 5:16:37 GMT -5
I not support him lol. He’s a moron. Leaving Afghanistan wasn’t ever going to work. I’d rather make a mess of it for a few weeks than fight for 20 more years. Biden has the guts Obama and Trump did not.
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Post by Downriver on Aug 17, 2021 22:49:27 GMT -5
Exactly BT. The execution was definitely screwed up because they underestimated the Taliban. But, the Taliban has seemed to learn a few things in the past 20 years and isn't interfering and attempting to project a kinder, gentler front. Probably all bullsh1t but if it lasts long enough to get all the Americans out that want out as well as the Afgans who helped us, that's all that matters. Now that they have the thing cranked up again they're able to move 5-9,000 people out daily. Lets just get out of there and let them do whatever. The only country that is helping is England. The rest of the world is just sitting back picking their nose. Time to stop being the world's police force.
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Post by stones on Aug 18, 2021 16:44:54 GMT -5
I would remove Joey from office
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Post by baldwintrack on Aug 18, 2021 16:52:24 GMT -5
Makes you no different than the idiots who tried removing Trump.
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Post by stones on Aug 18, 2021 17:06:35 GMT -5
Not for the decision to get out Leaving Americans behind and being totally unprepared Yes I would remove him
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Post by baldwintrack on Aug 18, 2021 18:53:25 GMT -5
Stones in my opinion we are lucky the current president is so senile he couldn’t fall for the same BS from the generals the Trump and Obama did when they promised to end this pointless war.
And I don’t mean pointless to our troops. No war is pointless if you’re getting shot at. They deserve as much respect as those who fought in WW2 or any other war. But it was pointless to America as a whole.
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Post by Downriver on Aug 18, 2021 22:38:32 GMT -5
We have got to stop electing these old senior citizen presidents. Trump and Biden are 153 between them and both were/are hot messes. People bitched about Bush 2 but man is he looking better all the time! LOL
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Post by yig on Aug 19, 2021 11:56:51 GMT -5
There are obviously so many ways to go with this Afghanistan [attempted] withdrawal. Anyone who sees it as black and white is showing downright ignorance. And it is ok for feelings to be all over the place as well.
Regarding the events of the past few days and even the reprecussions knowing what we know on 8/19/21 early afternoon: -Is the decision to withdraw the right thing to do? Almost certainly yes! Unless you are someone rooting for lifetime war/occupation in Afghanistan. -Was the timing right to do this? Maybe yes, maybe no. If you do not feel that the timing was right, however, when would have been a good time? Politics aside, of course. -Has this withdrawal been an unmitigated disaster? Of course it has. Biden and the current administration deserve a large share of the blame for it, but all three of his predecessors absolutely share at least some in the blame for various reasons as well...this withdrawal was nearly 20 years in the making. Unfortunately just to save face we will need the Taliban to cooperate just to save lives of both Americans and of friendly to the Afghanis who were/are loyal and friendly to the US/Coalition cause.
Keeping in mind: -George W. Bush got us into this mess...Obama/Trump/Biden all inherited a sh!t sandwich on this one thanks largely in part to Team W's rollout and lack of long term plan regarding this war/occupation, and what we are finding out now processing even the basic framework such as the paperwork needed to take care of those helping our cause in Afghanistan. Hindsight is 20/20, but almost all of you should and probably do agree that the War on Terror is the single biggest foreign policy disaster in the entire history of the United States. Certainly of the past 100 years. The positive being that we at least have been safe(r) for the past 20 years, but the negative being that these recent weeks have proven that no real advances have been made incredibly during the past 20 years. Unless you are betting on a kinder and gentler Taliban lol. -Rare that I lump Obama/Trump into the same, but for much of this there are similarities: both had getting out of Afghanistan as campaign promises, both failed, and the point of BT both (despite being at odds with the generals largely) still relented on this issue and allowed the generals' hawkish group think to win out. -The framework for this withdrawal was largely or at least large part put into place Trump era. I'm not blaming Trump for Biden's problem (let that be perfectly clear...ultimately the buck stops with the one who made the ultimate deicision, which is President Biden, not Trump)... with that said this would have been no better or worse of a debacle had this withdrawal happened last December for example. There is no reason to believe otherwise.
The reality of this situation is that from any polling at any time recently, a majority of Americans want out of Afghanistan (and public opinion has largely been the way since 2006 or so). Obama and Trump failed to deliver. Biden actually is making the most substantial attempt to deliver of the three. Yet, the humanitarian crisis at hand is something that they obviously did not put enough thought into. Best case scenario at this point is saving face (getting out and saving lives), worst case scenario is a humanitarian disaster, but not far ahead of worst case scenario is doubling down and spending another 20 years occupying a land that advances US interests almost zero.
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Post by coach99 on Aug 19, 2021 18:28:03 GMT -5
The withdrawl should have been taking place over a longer period of time...while all our air cover was still aiding the Afghan Army. The Americans and the Afgan advisers/helpers should have been pulled out knowing what was going to happen to them. There should have been a protective circle around the city and airports keeping the Taliban at a distance. Hindsight is easy. Last to leave the diplomats and ground troops while the air force laid a protective ring of bombs day and night to keep control till we had our last person out.
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Post by stones on Aug 19, 2021 19:18:57 GMT -5
Outstanding Post Coach Basically the Trumpy plan Longer and more organized LOL
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Post by hs on Aug 20, 2021 6:03:09 GMT -5
Outstanding Post Coach Basically the Trumpy plan Longer and more organized LOL It's funny stones how everything has just gone to hell under this administration and they just fall back on "it's Trump's fault". Gas prices soaring and what is Biden's plan? ask Opec to give us more oil. Not anything about removing his restrictions in America. I guess if it doesn't happen here it's not global warming? Economy flat but Biden goes out there and touts he has created more jobs in his first 6 months as president than any other president. Even the liberal media calls that a lie when it is just people going back to work. Southern border is in shambles and somehow that is Trump's fault when Biden and Harris said on the campaign trail they would open the border. Inflation rising, stock market basically flat, foreign policy is a joke and we still have National guard protecting washington DC for some strange reason. This administration is an absolute sh$t show
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Post by Downriver on Aug 20, 2021 9:10:35 GMT -5
Actually a president can't affect gas prices much at all. It's strictly a supply and demand issue. If you look at the historic prices, they were just as high under Trump in the summer of 2018. This year especially with people being cooped up for a year due to the virus, everyone wanted to get out and go somewhere this summer as restrictions eased.
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Post by stones on Aug 20, 2021 17:52:51 GMT -5
HS Great Post The US has a President against US oil LOL To depend on foreign oil is wrong
China I wonder if they go into Afghanistan and take the trillions of dollars of minerals ETC
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Post by hs on Aug 20, 2021 19:14:10 GMT -5
A president can affect gas prices as the same as he can affect job numbers. Yes supply and demand matters a lot but when a president shuts down pipelines, shuts down exploration in the artic, shuts down drilling on federal lands etc. gas prices are gonna go up. Gas prices were going down way before Covid started because Trump allowed fracking and oil exploration so we were flush with actually too much gas so has prices went down and we were exporting a lot.
presidents like to tout how they create jobs also. Kind of a falsity. If you start adding regulations and raising taxes, jobs will suffer. If the government stays out of the way and what Trump did was cut regulations massively and cut taxes, job numbers will be great
So basically in my long winded post, absolutely a president can affect gas prices etc but he will never take the blame for the bad only take credit for the good. Unfortunately, Biden does t have too much to take credit for so far
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Post by yig on Aug 23, 2021 11:00:38 GMT -5
DR and HS incredibly you're both wrong on your gas price memories lol. Summer '18 to your credit DR they weren't that far off but they were around $0.20 less/gallon on average. HS, gas prices December '19, January/February '20 were actually higher than their comp counterparts. March 2020 is a throw away because by the end of the month gas prices were already down to $2.00/gallon on the national average by the end of the month and were dropping over $0.10/week throughout the month as shutdown were rolling out. Considering that the flu coming out of Wuhan was not announced until the final days of December in 2019, the virus would have had zero effect on November and prior gas prices even if the illness was already out there. 2019 in general had higher gas prices than 2016 (Obama's final year in office) and 2017 (Trump's first year in office). Anywhere from even to around $0.40/gallon. 2016 NEVER higher gas prices than 2019. 2017 only two months that were higher gas prices then 2019. Again, one of these situations where people have "feelings" and can have memories even if they are wrong aliged mostly to their politics but the information is out there and is in black and white. With that said the most fair comp is probably now (summer '21) vs Summer 2019 in which gas prices legitimately are lower in the $0.30 to $0.40/gallon range, which is substantial but when looking at 2 year comps is not all that unusual either. Inflation arguments are fair game (because it is factual), but the gas price argument seems bunk at worst, moderate at best, and most likely inconclusive. Comparing anything gas price wise to 2020 is completely unfair becuase the facts do not tell the context. www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=emm_epmr_pte_nus_dpg&f=mwww.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=EMM_EPMR_PTE_NUS_DPG&f=W
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