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Post by bfgrad on Jun 17, 2020 6:00:31 GMT -5
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Post by hs on Jun 17, 2020 7:46:42 GMT -5
I get your point but First I’ve seen anyone talk about it Except a few blips on Fox and that is a local paper. Nothing I have seen from CNN, MSNBC etc. My point is The same people complaining about Trump rallies are staying mum on protest crowds
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Post by Downriver on Jun 17, 2020 8:59:56 GMT -5
I'm looking at this from a pure common sense angle. Granted, both the protests and the Trump rallies are a hotbed for virus transmission. I don't think anyone with a half a brain would say anything different. But, there's a huge difference between them. First, the protests are because of generations of police treatment of minorities and systemic racism. People of all colors just have had enough and it was enough to trigger world wide protests. The rallies are all about Trump's ego and need to get in front of a crowd and the administration has just been flat out lying about the dangers of the virus in order to get the economy opened up. Why else would they make anyone that goes to the rally sign a waiver not to sue the campaign? This was a real opportunity for Trump to lead and have virtual rallies and speak up and protect the American public. He is putting the voters he needs so badly in November in real danger by holding these events.
When funerals and other gatherings are severely limited, why would anyone want to risk their health. I lost a grandson a couple of months ago and my ex-daughter in law is going to be dumb enough to have a huge memorial service for him. Many of us tried to talk sense to her and tell her to wait but, she just had to have it. Quite a few of us, including my son(his father) told her we would not be coming if she didn't wait until it was safer. People just have to be smart about this type of thing if they want to survive.
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Post by bfgrad on Jun 17, 2020 11:13:28 GMT -5
Gov Wolf was named "employee of the month" (tongue-in-cheek of course) by an Ohio restaurant/bar only a couple miles from Conneaught for driving so much PA business their way,
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Post by yig on Jun 19, 2020 7:52:41 GMT -5
The protesters breaking mass gathering rules and risking spread of the virus has been a story from the beginning (keeping in mind that the weekend of 5/30 thru 5/31 was the weekend that most major cities had their biggest protests). From 5/30 www.cnn.com/2020/05/30/us/george-floyd-protests-coronavirus-masks/index.htmlFrom 6/1 www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/06/01/867200259/protests-over-racism-versus-risk-of-covid-i-wouldn-t-weigh-these-crises-separateFrom 6/2 www.healthline.com/health-news/why-wearing-a-mask-is-important-when-going-to-protestFrom 6/5 www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/06/cdc-warns-protests-and-covid-19-spreadFrom 6/7 www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/06/america-giving-up-on-pandemic/612796/From 6/9 www.startribune.com/testing-of-protesters-could-reshape-covid-19-thinking-in-minnesota/571173082/These range everywhere from the attitude on Covid-19 (to some Americans being over it) to the science (what we have learned and will learn about community spread) to the will and need to protest (kind of hitting on DR's point). Sources ranging from NPR and CNN to The Atlantic to more local Minnesota sources, pretty much Ground Zero for protests. I think that the concern with the Tulsa rally is mostly that it is a mass gathering indoors. I am not sure if anywhere in the WORLD has done an indoor mass gathering of this magnitude (19000 fans fit into the BOK), as all sports that have resumed have been in front of no crowds, and the protests have been almost completely outdoors. The other concern is that masks are not mandatory (say what you will about the protestors, but masks have been very common in these crowds). Honestly Trump or the Trump campaign is not the ones to be mad at here...they're doing this because they can, and Trump himself will be at a safe distance from the crowd, OK is one of his safest states electoral wise so if people get sick it is not a loss for him, etc. And from what I understand while they are not enforcing masks everyone in attendance gets one as they enter. They are checking off other boxes such as taking temperatures, etc. The first responders in Oklahoma City are the ones vocally concerned, but all that the governement officials have done there is ask kindly that the Trump team postpone the rally. In Ohio early on Governor DeWine took forceful action (cancelling the Arnold event and if anyone else recalls that first night that the NHL was cancelled was supposed to be the Penguins vs the Blue Jackets in front of an empty Nationwide Arena, which the Jackets did not like but the Governor told them that it was his order and that they had no choice). North Carolina (Charlotte and the governor) also stood their ground on enforcing social distancing standards at the upcoming RNC. We've spoken about Peduto cancelling St. Patrick's Day early, etc. This isn't about Trump being selfish or the people attending this rally being stupid as much as it is about the Oklahoma City government being wusses and allowing this to happen. They are completely missing the point about "public safety" and are proving that not enough lessons have been learned, yet.
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Post by Downriver on Jun 19, 2020 8:49:42 GMT -5
Agree Yig. People can bash Wolf from PA and Cuomo from NY, but all you have to do is look at the numbers of these two states compared to the rest of the country and they are doing it right. SE PA was nearly as bad as NY City and locking it down brought things under control. Now it, seems the measured Reopening in NY & PA is also working. We're still being cautious and picking our spots to go out but, so far so good!
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Post by bfgrad on Jun 19, 2020 12:33:13 GMT -5
Ate out for the 3rd time today, so far, so good. Passed an Eat 'n' Park and an Appleby's on the way home and both had parking lots that were pretty full.
YIG, you are correct that issue with the Trump rally is that is indoors. Ironically, today as I was buying cat food at Walmart, I noticed they are selling a personal weather protector pop up pod. If the Trump campaign gave one of those to every attendee, they could have it outside, everyone would be in their own personal space and rain would not be an issue.
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Post by hs on Jun 19, 2020 13:50:35 GMT -5
Ate out for the 3rd time today, so far, so good. Passed an Eat 'n' Park and an Appleby's on the way home and both had parking lots that were pretty full.
YIG, you are correct that issue with the Trump rally is that is indoors. Ironically, today as I was buying cat food at Walmart, I noticed they are selling a personal weather protector pop up pod. If the Trump campaign gave one of those to every attendee, they could have it outside, everyone would be in their own personal space and rain would not be an issue. Also seeing a lot of parking lots full. Stores getting pretty relaxed on the wearing of masks. Not too sure what to think about that but I guess it is what it is. Maybe people just need to take personal responsibility versus being told what to do. point taken on the articles on virus spreading and protests. I have been proven wrong but for every article posted I can also posts links on CNN and MSNBC anchors and contributors saying things like “social justice over social distancing” and how people need to protest arm and arm or how governors are explaining why they won’t open a beach then are photographed at a rally not social distancing so maybe they are just talking out both sides of their mouths to appease everyone?
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Post by bfgrad on Jun 19, 2020 16:04:31 GMT -5
hs, I've noticed the mask wearing has gotten lax, too. Under "green" mask-wearing is recommended, but not mandatory for customers. Walmart and Home Depot took down their signage about masks the day we went to "green". Although I do have to say that at first I saw a fair number of people not wearing masks in these stores, but now it seems more people are. I guess it's more to be polite than any big concern about getting sick. I'm pretty lax about wearing a mask because my nose is mostly useless for air intake and breathing gets me a mouth full of cloth. But, I tie a bandana around my neck so I can cover my mouth if I'm asking an employee a question or chatting with someone in line, etc.
I don't honestly see anyone who is outdoors wearing one now and not even that many before, tbh.
Looks like you will have a good day for your son and daughter-in-law's reception. Have fun, put politics aside.
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Post by stones on Jun 20, 2020 5:02:40 GMT -5
I read when all said and the done the death rate may be .26% All this for such a low number
DR Sorry for your loss I cant believe you think Cuomo did a good job NY has 25000 deaths He is probably the only governor that actually killed people with his nursing home decisions PA is 4th on the list of deaths
I think we can use the Trump rally for research At some point gatherings inside will need to happen I went to the Hollywood Casino towards the Hershey Pa area and no problems at all It was packed Actually everywhere I go is packed Great to see People that whine and cry should stay home
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Post by bfgrad on Jun 20, 2020 6:46:39 GMT -5
Frankly, the stay-at-home, social distancing, mask-wearing and so on has never been about preventing cv19 purely for the sake of public health. Because if it was, we'd be taking the same precautions and shutting down every fall/winter during flu season. It's been so because our US healthcare system is broken and cannot cope with a large number of patients entering it all around the same time. It's pathetic that a few thousand people can overwhelm hospitals and ERs, but that is what our system of private and for profit health care has brought us.
FTR, mortality rate is total deaths/total cases. Right now, that number for the US is 119,112/2,221,1079 = 5.36% which matches the overall world mortality rate of 5.31% (459,468/8,641,120). If you subtract out the US numbers, the mortality is 5% (340,356/6,420,041). Case/death numbersare from the top line at Triblive.com The caveat is that the total number of cases is unknown because people have had cv19, recovered and never seen a doctor or been tested.
Right now in PA, the recovery rate has climbed from 62% to 77% as of yesterday, so that is climbing fairly quickly.
I agree that people should decide how risk averse they are and decide what activities they want to engage in or not.
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Post by hs on Jun 20, 2020 8:24:50 GMT -5
hs, I've noticed the mask wearing has gotten lax, too. Under "green" mask-wearing is recommended, but not mandatory for customers. Walmart and Home Depot took down their signage about masks the day we went to "green". Although I do have to say that at first I saw a fair number of people not wearing masks in these stores, but now it seems more people are. I guess it's more to be polite than any big concern about getting sick. I'm pretty lax about wearing a mask because my nose is mostly useless for air intake and breathing gets me a mouth full of cloth. But, I tie a bandana around my neck so I can cover my mouth if I'm asking an employee a question or chatting with someone in line, etc.
I don't honestly see anyone who is outdoors wearing one now and not even that many before, tbh.
Looks like you will have a good day for your son and daughter-in-law's reception. Have fun, put politics aside. I always try and put politics aside. In my family, we run the entire spectrum which is probably true for others on this site. I have a few hard core Trump supporters in my family but also a few hard core Trump haters so I try to avoid talking politics with my family as much as I can! I'm sure everyone knows my stance on the whole Covid thing but what is concerning me bfgrad, and let me know if you agree or not, but what concerns me is the lax attitude of masks and social distancing with older people lately. You would think they might want to take extra precautions being probably the most susceptible. Older people walking around WalMart, Lowes, standing in line at Brusters etc., no masks and at all times during the day. Older man was yelling at me (no mask) at Lowes just yesterday to move up even when I was standing on the 6 foot marker with another person in front of me. Showed him the markers on the floor and he tells me "Eh, who gives a sh&& about those! I don't want other people cutting then I'll be here forever!" True story. I'm 48 and i still wear a mask every where I go out. Do i like to, No, but as you said it is more to keep others safe for the public health and IMO it's a respectful thing to do
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Post by bfgrad on Jun 20, 2020 11:42:07 GMT -5
Interestingly, hs, the older folks 75+ I've talked to have all said something along the lines of "life is not without risk". Maybe that's just the perspective of living a long life, having seen spouses, friends and family pass on and comtemplated their own mortality. Yesterday I had lunch with my late mom's last remaining childhood friend who's in her 90s. She's been staying home mostly, but she told me exactly what I quoted, that life comes with risk.
I didn't wear a mask the first few days we were in "green" when I went out, then I thought about it and came to the same place as you are, it's just respectful of other people regardless of how much protection it may or may not provide.
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Post by Downriver on Jun 20, 2020 11:46:16 GMT -5
Agree completely hs. We will go shopping, etc. but limit our trips and try to keep our distance just to be a little safer. The key to this whole virus thing is distancing and masks until they come up with a vaccine. I hate the masks but it's certainly better than dying!
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Post by crabber on Jun 21, 2020 14:43:01 GMT -5
Do you know that Lancaster only has one hospital now the General the other closed because their owners said they weren't making enough money
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